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	<title>Comments on: Milk and Rust</title>
	<atom:link href="http://bifurcatedcarrots.eu/2009/05/milk-and-rust/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://bifurcatedcarrots.eu/2009/05/milk-and-rust/</link>
	<description>Heirloom gardening and the lives of Pat &#039;n&#039; Steph</description>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://bifurcatedcarrots.eu/2009/05/milk-and-rust/comment-page-1/#comment-101946</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Nov 2011 20:37:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.patnsteph.net/weblog/?p=1421#comment-101946</guid>
		<description>Hi Nevil,

Sorry about your garlic too.  If the bulbs are big, that&#039;s what&#039;s important.  The rust probably won&#039;t affect the quality much beyond making the bulbs a little smaller, unless you leave them in the ground too long after the plants die and the skins start falling apart.

There&#039;s little doubt the bulbs and other plant material will have some rust spores in them, and if you use them for replanting they could be a source of infection.  Letting infected plants grow will also spread the spores, which can be carried long distances in the wind.

My experience with garlic rust is if you live in an area prone to infection, there&#039;s little you can do to prevent it.  I do live in an area with established rust and high winds.  Instead of fighting the infection directly, by means of trying to insure clean planting stock, quickly destroying infected plants and using chemicals, I try to make sure the plants are otherwise as healthy as possible.

In the end rust rarely destroys crops, and well managed it doesn&#039;t necessarily reduce harvest very much either.  It&#039;s just a real nuisance!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Nevil,</p>
<p>Sorry about your garlic too.  If the bulbs are big, that&#8217;s what&#8217;s important.  The rust probably won&#8217;t affect the quality much beyond making the bulbs a little smaller, unless you leave them in the ground too long after the plants die and the skins start falling apart.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s little doubt the bulbs and other plant material will have some rust spores in them, and if you use them for replanting they could be a source of infection.  Letting infected plants grow will also spread the spores, which can be carried long distances in the wind.</p>
<p>My experience with garlic rust is if you live in an area prone to infection, there&#8217;s little you can do to prevent it.  I do live in an area with established rust and high winds.  Instead of fighting the infection directly, by means of trying to insure clean planting stock, quickly destroying infected plants and using chemicals, I try to make sure the plants are otherwise as healthy as possible.</p>
<p>In the end rust rarely destroys crops, and well managed it doesn&#8217;t necessarily reduce harvest very much either.  It&#8217;s just a real nuisance!</p>
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		<title>By: Nevil Reed</title>
		<link>http://bifurcatedcarrots.eu/2009/05/milk-and-rust/comment-page-1/#comment-101845</link>
		<dc:creator>Nevil Reed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Nov 2011 23:12:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.patnsteph.net/weblog/?p=1421#comment-101845</guid>
		<description>We are also in Tasmania but central north
just walked through our garlic patch which has double bolted this year and now has rust. What a pity our bulbs are as big as oranges.Just wondering anyone&#039;s thought about the pros and cons of using this for seed?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We are also in Tasmania but central north<br />
just walked through our garlic patch which has double bolted this year and now has rust. What a pity our bulbs are as big as oranges.Just wondering anyone&#8217;s thought about the pros and cons of using this for seed?</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://bifurcatedcarrots.eu/2009/05/milk-and-rust/comment-page-1/#comment-99811</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Nov 2011 18:05:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.patnsteph.net/weblog/?p=1421#comment-99811</guid>
		<description>Geraldene,

I&#039;m really sorry about your plants.  I hope they come out okay in the end.  I&#039;m also sorry garlic rust has made it&#039;s way to Tasmania.

Thanks for letting us all know about the rust, and thanks for reminding me it&#039;s about time to get my garlic in the ground!  I hope you have a great gardening season this year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Geraldene,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m really sorry about your plants.  I hope they come out okay in the end.  I&#8217;m also sorry garlic rust has made it&#8217;s way to Tasmania.</p>
<p>Thanks for letting us all know about the rust, and thanks for reminding me it&#8217;s about time to get my garlic in the ground!  I hope you have a great gardening season this year.</p>
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		<title>By: Geraldene</title>
		<link>http://bifurcatedcarrots.eu/2009/05/milk-and-rust/comment-page-1/#comment-99508</link>
		<dc:creator>Geraldene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Oct 2011 09:48:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.patnsteph.net/weblog/?p=1421#comment-99508</guid>
		<description>31/10/2011
We too have a bad infestation of garlic rust and have never had it before.We live in Blackmans Bay in Tasmania, Australia, and have had a wet, dull winter too. We cut off some leaves three weeks ago, but the rest of the leaves are now infected. We did try the milk spray, but only once. We are not going to dig the plants yet....will leave to harvest as normal in December.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>31/10/2011<br />
We too have a bad infestation of garlic rust and have never had it before.We live in Blackmans Bay in Tasmania, Australia, and have had a wet, dull winter too. We cut off some leaves three weeks ago, but the rest of the leaves are now infected. We did try the milk spray, but only once. We are not going to dig the plants yet&#8230;.will leave to harvest as normal in December.</p>
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		<title>By: Garlic Rust in Iran &#124; Bifurcated Carrots</title>
		<link>http://bifurcatedcarrots.eu/2009/05/milk-and-rust/comment-page-1/#comment-93761</link>
		<dc:creator>Garlic Rust in Iran &#124; Bifurcated Carrots</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Aug 2011 10:24:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.patnsteph.net/weblog/?p=1421#comment-93761</guid>
		<description>[...] a suggestion from Søren, a fellow blogger in Denmark I&#8217;ve been experimenting with spraying dilute milk on my plants.  I have not done this in any sort of scientific way, but my feeling is it&#8217;s of significant [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a suggestion from Søren, a fellow blogger in Denmark I&#8217;ve been experimenting with spraying dilute milk on my plants.  I have not done this in any sort of scientific way, but my feeling is it&#8217;s of significant [...]</p>
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		<title>By: mary dixon</title>
		<link>http://bifurcatedcarrots.eu/2009/05/milk-and-rust/comment-page-1/#comment-87842</link>
		<dc:creator>mary dixon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jun 2011 13:36:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.patnsteph.net/weblog/?p=1421#comment-87842</guid>
		<description>Well, it&#039;s 2011 now and I have rust really bad. I live in southwest Oregon, about 1/2 hour from the coast. I&#039;ve been using the dilute milk and have come to the conclusion that it needs to start being applied, like the curcubits, before one ever sees rust. Here, where it&#039;s wet/damp for 1/2 the year, once it appears,unless pulled, your garlic out of luck. Depressing.
  Your comment on too much nitrogen/manure was a lightbulb. I followed Steve Soloman&#039;s protocol, which is sidedressings of nitrogen rich fertilizers in Feb. and April. Though I do this every year, actually, this year I am consumed with garlic rust. i have resorted to cutting off the leaves, just leaving the stalk. Guess I&#039;ll just see what happens.  Thanks for your info and thoughts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, it&#8217;s 2011 now and I have rust really bad. I live in southwest Oregon, about 1/2 hour from the coast. I&#8217;ve been using the dilute milk and have come to the conclusion that it needs to start being applied, like the curcubits, before one ever sees rust. Here, where it&#8217;s wet/damp for 1/2 the year, once it appears,unless pulled, your garlic out of luck. Depressing.<br />
  Your comment on too much nitrogen/manure was a lightbulb. I followed Steve Soloman&#8217;s protocol, which is sidedressings of nitrogen rich fertilizers in Feb. and April. Though I do this every year, actually, this year I am consumed with garlic rust. i have resorted to cutting off the leaves, just leaving the stalk. Guess I&#8217;ll just see what happens.  Thanks for your info and thoughts.</p>
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		<title>By: Garlic Rust Appears &#124; Bifurcated Carrots</title>
		<link>http://bifurcatedcarrots.eu/2009/05/milk-and-rust/comment-page-1/#comment-40305</link>
		<dc:creator>Garlic Rust Appears &#124; Bifurcated Carrots</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 09:51:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.patnsteph.net/weblog/?p=1421#comment-40305</guid>
		<description>[...] really hard to say if the milk I used made any [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] really hard to say if the milk I used made any [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle</title>
		<link>http://bifurcatedcarrots.eu/2009/05/milk-and-rust/comment-page-1/#comment-38375</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 14:44:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.patnsteph.net/weblog/?p=1421#comment-38375</guid>
		<description>Hi Patrick, now you&#039;ve got me wondering if the Neem did stop the rust or if it had just run its course and/or weather conditions didn&#039;t favor it any more. It will be interesting to see if it returns next year and I try the neem before the rust runs rampant. I&#039;m also interested to see the results of your milk treatments. 

After a bit more reading, I found that garlic rust is also present in the Salinas valley, even closer to me than Gilroy...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Patrick, now you&#8217;ve got me wondering if the Neem did stop the rust or if it had just run its course and/or weather conditions didn&#8217;t favor it any more. It will be interesting to see if it returns next year and I try the neem before the rust runs rampant. I&#8217;m also interested to see the results of your milk treatments. </p>
<p>After a bit more reading, I found that garlic rust is also present in the Salinas valley, even closer to me than Gilroy&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle</title>
		<link>http://bifurcatedcarrots.eu/2009/05/milk-and-rust/comment-page-1/#comment-38256</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 00:13:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.patnsteph.net/weblog/?p=1421#comment-38256</guid>
		<description>Hi Patrick, thank you for the great information. I&#039;m going to have to do some reading on this topic. Gilroy isn&#039;t all that far from here...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Patrick, thank you for the great information. I&#8217;m going to have to do some reading on this topic. Gilroy isn&#8217;t all that far from here&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Bev</title>
		<link>http://bifurcatedcarrots.eu/2009/05/milk-and-rust/comment-page-1/#comment-38177</link>
		<dc:creator>Bev</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 16:31:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.patnsteph.net/weblog/?p=1421#comment-38177</guid>
		<description>Hi Patrick
Thanks again.  It&#039;s interesting what you say about covering the ground. I do it mainly to conserve water but also to prevent weeds.  I seem to spend most of my life either watering or weeding.  I don&#039;t mind either but water is so scarce and expensive.  I wouldn&#039;t be able to say if covering has increased the size of the bulbs yet but will bare it in mind in the future.  
I&#039;ve pulled up a few of the bulbs and they are of reasonable size.  I think I&#039;ll follow your advice and leave the rest for a month or so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Patrick<br />
Thanks again.  It&#8217;s interesting what you say about covering the ground. I do it mainly to conserve water but also to prevent weeds.  I seem to spend most of my life either watering or weeding.  I don&#8217;t mind either but water is so scarce and expensive.  I wouldn&#8217;t be able to say if covering has increased the size of the bulbs yet but will bare it in mind in the future.<br />
I&#8217;ve pulled up a few of the bulbs and they are of reasonable size.  I think I&#8217;ll follow your advice and leave the rest for a month or so.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://bifurcatedcarrots.eu/2009/05/milk-and-rust/comment-page-1/#comment-38132</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 09:19:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.patnsteph.net/weblog/?p=1421#comment-38132</guid>
		<description>Hi Bev,

I don&#039;t think there&#039;s any problem with the leaves.  Garlic rust is usually spread by the wind, and if it were to be in the ground the leaves might help prevent it being splashed up by the rain and so could help.

I cover my garlic with straw.  Using something to cover it in the winter helps a lot because the temperature can vary a lot in the winter, for example it can freeze at night but the sun can shine brightly during the day and warm the ground.  While garlic can tolerate mild to very cold temperatures, it doesn&#039;t like these changes, so covering the ground can help a lot.  Of course it also helps with the weeds.

I read a study at an American university a few years ago that said when you cover the ground, the garlic grows 10% bigger.

Other than making sure you don&#039;t give the garlic too much fertilizer or fresh manure, I don&#039;t think there is much you can do about the rust.  Like I mention here, I&#039;m experimenting with milk, but I don&#039;t really expect it to help.  Mostly you just have to hope the garlic rust comes late in the season.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Bev,</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s any problem with the leaves.  Garlic rust is usually spread by the wind, and if it were to be in the ground the leaves might help prevent it being splashed up by the rain and so could help.</p>
<p>I cover my garlic with straw.  Using something to cover it in the winter helps a lot because the temperature can vary a lot in the winter, for example it can freeze at night but the sun can shine brightly during the day and warm the ground.  While garlic can tolerate mild to very cold temperatures, it doesn&#8217;t like these changes, so covering the ground can help a lot.  Of course it also helps with the weeds.</p>
<p>I read a study at an American university a few years ago that said when you cover the ground, the garlic grows 10% bigger.</p>
<p>Other than making sure you don&#8217;t give the garlic too much fertilizer or fresh manure, I don&#8217;t think there is much you can do about the rust.  Like I mention here, I&#8217;m experimenting with milk, but I don&#8217;t really expect it to help.  Mostly you just have to hope the garlic rust comes late in the season.</p>
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		<title>By: Bev</title>
		<link>http://bifurcatedcarrots.eu/2009/05/milk-and-rust/comment-page-1/#comment-38131</link>
		<dc:creator>Bev</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 06:51:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.patnsteph.net/weblog/?p=1421#comment-38131</guid>
		<description>Thanks so much for your advice Patrick.  There is no sign of rust on my onions and I have some right next to the garlic - so I think you&#039;re right.  I used chopped up leaves collected from the woods near my house as a mulch.  Do you think this might have contributed to the problem? There are so many it seemed like a good idea at the time.  
Regards
Bev</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks so much for your advice Patrick.  There is no sign of rust on my onions and I have some right next to the garlic &#8211; so I think you&#8217;re right.  I used chopped up leaves collected from the woods near my house as a mulch.  Do you think this might have contributed to the problem? There are so many it seemed like a good idea at the time.<br />
Regards<br />
Bev</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://bifurcatedcarrots.eu/2009/05/milk-and-rust/comment-page-1/#comment-38089</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 16:16:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.patnsteph.net/weblog/?p=1421#comment-38089</guid>
		<description>Hi Bev,

Sorry to hear about your garlic.

I doubt the rust can spread to your onions, but I&#039;m not completely sure.

I suggest leaving the bulbs in the ground as long as possible, but of course when the plants are dead, they&#039;re dead, and there&#039;s no point in leaving them in the ground any longer.

Your garlic should be normal, except if you have to harvest early it will be smaller.

Rust does not normally infect the bulbs, only the leaves.  Having said that rust does spread the longer you leave your garlic in the ground, and you should be careful to destroy the infected parts of the plants and not put them into your compost.  

You will reduce your chances of getting rust early again next year if you are careful this year not to spread it too much, and it&#039;s best to use planting stock you are completely sure is rust free if you can get it.  Also like I said above, for next year, too much nitrogen fertilizer or fresh animal manure is known to make rust worse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Bev,</p>
<p>Sorry to hear about your garlic.</p>
<p>I doubt the rust can spread to your onions, but I&#8217;m not completely sure.</p>
<p>I suggest leaving the bulbs in the ground as long as possible, but of course when the plants are dead, they&#8217;re dead, and there&#8217;s no point in leaving them in the ground any longer.</p>
<p>Your garlic should be normal, except if you have to harvest early it will be smaller.</p>
<p>Rust does not normally infect the bulbs, only the leaves.  Having said that rust does spread the longer you leave your garlic in the ground, and you should be careful to destroy the infected parts of the plants and not put them into your compost.  </p>
<p>You will reduce your chances of getting rust early again next year if you are careful this year not to spread it too much, and it&#8217;s best to use planting stock you are completely sure is rust free if you can get it.  Also like I said above, for next year, too much nitrogen fertilizer or fresh animal manure is known to make rust worse.</p>
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		<title>By: Bev</title>
		<link>http://bifurcatedcarrots.eu/2009/05/milk-and-rust/comment-page-1/#comment-38086</link>
		<dc:creator>Bev</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 13:40:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.patnsteph.net/weblog/?p=1421#comment-38086</guid>
		<description>Hi
Whilst searching the internet regarding rust on my garlic - I came across your website.  My garlic seems to be quite badly affected but, to be honest, has only 2 - 4 growing left to do. Should I take it up now or leave it?  What happens to the bulbs if left?  Can it spread to onions?
I&#039;d be grateful for any advice as I can&#039;t find answers in any of my books.
I live in south West France by the way.

Bev</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi<br />
Whilst searching the internet regarding rust on my garlic &#8211; I came across your website.  My garlic seems to be quite badly affected but, to be honest, has only 2 &#8211; 4 growing left to do. Should I take it up now or leave it?  What happens to the bulbs if left?  Can it spread to onions?<br />
I&#8217;d be grateful for any advice as I can&#8217;t find answers in any of my books.<br />
I live in south West France by the way.</p>
<p>Bev</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://bifurcatedcarrots.eu/2009/05/milk-and-rust/comment-page-1/#comment-38074</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 05:29:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.patnsteph.net/weblog/?p=1421#comment-38074</guid>
		<description>Hi Michelle,

Thanks for the comment!

If what you have is killed or even slowed down with neem oil, I doubt it&#039;s the same rust we have here.  Not even commercial/chemical sprays are effective against rust after an infection takes place.  The only option garlic farmers have here is to begin spraying before a possible infection may take place, and continue until harvest.  It&#039;s very similar in this respect to potato or tomato blight.

Commercial preventative sprays are very toxic.

Milk too only has the possibility to prevent or slow infection.

Garlic rust is very specific to garlic.  It&#039;s not possible to get it from plants like roses, even leeks get a form of rust that&#039;s unable to infect garlic.

It&#039;s been a year or so since I read this, and I would have to double check to make sure, but what I remember is the only two places in the US with garlic rust are central California in the area around Gilroy, and a few small areas in Oregon.  Of course this could have changed a bit in the last few years, but I haven&#039;t heard of widespread outbreaks in the US.  None of the garlic growers I&#039;m in contact with in the US have never seen rust before.

Probably what&#039;s more important than what you do to prevent rust are the things you don&#039;t do.  In particular garlic rust is associated with excessive nitrogen/fertilizer use, or the use of fresh animal manure.  Garlic also likes a lot of organic material in the ground.  Keeping your plants healthy in this way can go a long way to reducing rust problems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Michelle,</p>
<p>Thanks for the comment!</p>
<p>If what you have is killed or even slowed down with neem oil, I doubt it&#8217;s the same rust we have here.  Not even commercial/chemical sprays are effective against rust after an infection takes place.  The only option garlic farmers have here is to begin spraying before a possible infection may take place, and continue until harvest.  It&#8217;s very similar in this respect to potato or tomato blight.</p>
<p>Commercial preventative sprays are very toxic.</p>
<p>Milk too only has the possibility to prevent or slow infection.</p>
<p>Garlic rust is very specific to garlic.  It&#8217;s not possible to get it from plants like roses, even leeks get a form of rust that&#8217;s unable to infect garlic.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s been a year or so since I read this, and I would have to double check to make sure, but what I remember is the only two places in the US with garlic rust are central California in the area around Gilroy, and a few small areas in Oregon.  Of course this could have changed a bit in the last few years, but I haven&#8217;t heard of widespread outbreaks in the US.  None of the garlic growers I&#8217;m in contact with in the US have never seen rust before.</p>
<p>Probably what&#8217;s more important than what you do to prevent rust are the things you don&#8217;t do.  In particular garlic rust is associated with excessive nitrogen/fertilizer use, or the use of fresh animal manure.  Garlic also likes a lot of organic material in the ground.  Keeping your plants healthy in this way can go a long way to reducing rust problems.</p>
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